This is kind of a long post, so feel free to skip over it. I wanted to share an opinion I just posted, so there are quotes from others to put it into context. The thread is called Are gay men welcomed on Olivia Cruises? The answer from Olivia is no, but there’s been a lot of discussion about men’s space vs. women’s space, whether Olivia is practicing discrimination, whether this is different from the Augusta National Golf Club, etc.

The first quote is from a poster named Dan, who lives in Kansas; his post was titled “we still have sooooo far to go” …

Reading this thread has been very interesting, but it really saddens my heart when I see so much “One-sidedness” on both sides….. I am a gay man, an older gay man, one that has seen the days when it was VERY unpopular to be gay, and the one thing that has continued over the years is that we do a lot of damage to OURSELVES….. we have created our own worlds and we hide behind them for security…………….. Perhaps it is because I now live in a very small town in the Mid-West,( and am openly gay, I might add)….that I look at things a little differently…. I think that as long as we continue to segregate ourselves from the world and all its elements we will get NOWHERE….. we are a minority and to continue to segregate amongst ourselves hinders our growth and acceptance,…….. I REALLY DO enjoy being around other gay people, it is something that we seldom experience where we live, (my partner & I)….. we do choose to go on cruises that are with a large GLBT group, but on regular mainstream cruises, I, myself would never want to go on an ALL GAY cruise of either sex…. life is not made up like that….. it is made up of ALL walks of life, of many colors and styles….. Perhaps if we all learned to live with one another then there would no longer be a need or market for these ALL EXCLUSIVE groups…..regardless of what our issues are, I still have to ask one question, when we discriminate are we any different then those that discriminate against us? I can answer my own question and the answer is NO….. when we segregate amongst ourselves we add fuel to the fire, “See this group is not as good as us” or “I do not want to be around THAT type” “Being around THEM makes me feel unconfortable” ……We have to stand together or we get nowhere…..we have learned nothing and we will never educate the world that we are just like them….. just PEOPLE, different lifestyles and make-up, but on the inside we are ALL the same …..

The second quote is from Mike:

Your post made so much sense and I couldn’t agree more! Life isn’t made up of an ‘all gay’ cruise. While it can be fun for a week, then reality hits!

We just returned from the Adventure of the Seas- while we weren’t huge fans of Royal Caribbean. We found ourseleves in great company- a wonderful straight couple from NYC, a professional woman from the DC area and then there were two married younger couples from Texas who were rude. In the end the 5 of us ran them off and had a wonderful time! We talked about all topics including gay marriage.

It is nice to try and live in a ‘bubble’ but unfortunately that reality doesn’t exist.

While a Pied Piper group cruise (mingling with other straight people) would be ideal. We certainly don’t mind going on our own. We have no plans of doing an Atlantis, RSVP or even an Olivia cruise (I am sure they ladies will appreciate hearing that).

And here, finally, is what I had to say:

Originally Posted by Mike
Life isn’t made up of an ‘all gay’ cruise. While it can be fun for a week, then reality hits!
…
It is nice to try and live in a ‘bubble’ but unfortunately that reality doesn’t exist.

I am going to play Devil’s Advocate here. First of all, isn’t the point of a vacation that it should be fun for a week, then reality hits? That’s what ALL my vacations have been like, gay and straight, cruise and land, all over the world. So why shouldn’t I want to live in “gay paradise” for a week? While I can certainly appreciate the utopia Dan described in his post, it’s not the way things are…and if I want to escape for a while, isn’t that reasonable? I know what the real world is like, I live there 90% of the time…why do I need to stay “in the real world” on my vacation?

People like to be with people like themselves. Even in a tolerant world there will still be cultural affiliations. I love diversity, I grew up with it, but there’s something to be said for “the tribe” too. Shared experiences make for stronger relationships no matter who you are, and I think that’s why a lot of people like to be with “their own kind.”

I agree with Dan’s proposal that discrimination within our own groups can be as harmful as others discriminating against us, but I don’t think that rules out the need for the all-gay cruise market. It’s been said over and over, but I’ll say it again - and I’m paraphrasing Voltaire here - if you don’t like the idea of an all-gay cruise, don’t take one…and let people who do enjoy that kind of thing have their fun too.

So that’s my post. If you have thoughts on “the tribe,” cultural/group affiliations, etc. please chime in, because this is a very interesting topic to me.